Front Page Realism (Update with link)

by wasder, Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:02:32 PM EST

For just a wee, brief moment on late Tuesday night early Weds morning this website was over-run with a valuable commodity that has been sorely lacking at this site--a realistic portrait of the state of the Democratic race. Todd and Jerome both posted front page stories that indicated a nuanced sense of the race, that acknowleged that Obama was the presumptive nominee and that had thoughtful analyses about why this was and what to do moving forward.

Since that brief window, we have seen some major regression on this front and a drift back to the land of "she can still pull it off, the race is still fluid" absurdity. How long are you guys going to allow this site to be so far outside the drift of reality based politics. We are counting on you to become leaders in the coming fight against McCain. Please provide us with more of the kinds of reality based blogging you posted ever so briefly this week.

I say this not to be inflammatory but to point out the value in what I am advocating. Todd's post on Tuesday night provoked some of the most thoughtful exchanges between Obama and Clinton supporters that I have seen on line. This kind of "airing the laundry" is exactly what we are all going to need to repair the rifts that have developed.

So, consider this an open plea for well rounded, realistic discussion of the state of the race. Continuing to hype Clinton's chances in the face of all evidence is not serving anybody but the people who are invested in holding their grudges.

Thanks in advance.

Here's the link to Todd's thread Tuesday night and subsequent valuable discussion....http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/7/53225/37686#commenttop




Tags: obama, nominee, realism (all tags)

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Re: Front Page Realism (2.00 / 4)

I'd like to second this particular emotion.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:11:13 PM EST

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

Reality-based politics includes acknowledging the strange, undocumented phenomenon of low-probability scenarios occurring.  Imagine that.


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:12:42 PM EST

There is a limit... (2.00 / 2)

... and we are really drifting towards "well, if Obama is struck by lightning" territory here. Which, as the poster of this diary points out, the front page acknowledged for a brief moment the other day.


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:20:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There is a limit... (2.00 / 2)

In my circle of family and friends, I am for better and worse the only political junkie.

I started the whole "hit by a train" or "dead hooker in the trunk" scenarios before Texas/Ohio was done.

Although I think my man Barack got hit by lightening Tuesday night, the speech woulda gone on!


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:53:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 2)

There is a way to discuss these sorts of low probability eventualities without completely buying into the premise that the race didn't change on Tuesday.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 2)

I think we need to work to create diaries that will promote healing. I made an effort with two diaries - one listing exactly why I voted for who I did (encouraging others to do the same), and another where I listed my greivances with all the candidates (again encouraging others to follow suit). We have to create diaries and threads taht promote coversation rather than argument and clearly stated OPINIONS and not faux-facts about the candidates.

It's time to speak to one another like adults (even if upset at times). I agree with this diary completely!


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:13:54 PM EST

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

Baloney. I just agreed with RonK in a frontpage post today. Look, if you think just because Obama is now about 92% the nominee that a critical look will halt, and the juice will flow, you're wrong.


by Jerome Armstrong on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:22:20 PM EST

At what point will it flow? (2.00 / 2)

I'm just curious here.

Is it when the superdelegates put him over the top at 2024 (or 2209, whatever)?

Or is it at the convention, because the supers "could change their minds?"

Just trying to gauge where you stand on this.  Almost every primary in the last half century has been decided well before this point, and the times where the supporters of the 2nd place candidate held onto faint, selfish hope are the times that we've been solidly trounced.  The fact that McGovern and Kennedy, the two people who learned this lesson best, are supporting Obama now should be a clear indicator that the Clinton train is off-track.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

What are you calling baloney on here? I can't tell if you are responding to my diary or to a later comment. And yes, when are you Jerome Armstrong going to say unequivocally that Obama is the presumptive nominee? Is it only at convention when, as dracomicron rightly points out, the supers can no longer change their minds? If that is the answer we are in trouble. I hope that come June 4th you will rekindle some of the "i am unaligned and want a democrat to win" spirit that you briefly flashed the other day. We really need your voice here.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:58:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

OK--so now I see what you are talking about. You agree with Ron K's assessment that she can continue but that she will really be irrelevant if she does. Had you added that you thought that it would be better for the Democratic cause in general if she didn't take it to the convention, it would have been a stronger statement.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:19:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, you don't understand! (2.00 / 3)

Statistically speaking, the chances of a meteor hitting a credible black candidate for President of the United States of America are higher than they ever have been before.

We need to focus on the chance that the Hand of God will blast down from the heavens and annihilate Barack Obama and a half-mile radius around him.  In that eventuality, Hillary Clinton will certainly be the nominee!


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:24:35 PM EST

Re: No, you don't understand! (2.00 / 1)

That's awesome.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:28:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Heh, thanks (2.00 / 1)

It's just a more over-the-top version of the lightning bolt argument from above.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (none / 0)

How long are you guys going to allow this site to be so far outside the drift of reality based politics.
Heh, an insult base on your personal opinion.

We are counting on you to become leaders in the coming fight against McCain. Please provide us with more of the kinds of reality based blogging you posted ever so briefly this week.
First an insult, and then a farce of a compliment. Cool! :D


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:32:16 PM EST

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

Soy, will you let it go, damn do you really like doing that every day.

We are trying to be realistic here.

How credible will this site be when in September there are people like you still saying she has a chance.

Will I be insulting you if I say you are delusional then?

There are bound of reason to every issue in life, I hope you find yours soon.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:55:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (none / 0)

Soy, will you let it go, damn do you really like doing that every day.
Let what go? Do I really like blogging everyday? Of course or I wouldn't be here.
We are trying to be realistic here.
"trying to be realistic here" is a matter of opinion, IMO, I am realistic, I don't care whether you think I am or not.
How credible will this site be when in September there are people like you still saying she has a chance.
Unlike you, I would rather see the process continue rather than letting the pundits and bloggers decide; otherwise why even bother with the voting system at all?
Will I be insulting you if I say you are delusional then?
yes
There are bound of reason to every issue in life, I hope you find yours soon.
Don't worry about my life, I don't worry about yours.
by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (none / 0)

So you are saying you will still burn the torches and circle the wagons AFTER the convention.

Look, try and parse my words all you want, but if you are still attacking us in September you better set up your own blog, or get a job with Taylor Marsh.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:17:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

A farce of a compliment??!! I was very sincere. the thread I linked to was filled with the kind of constructive back and forth between Obama supporters and Clinton supporters that we need to engage in now. And it happened only because Todd stepped outside of direct Clinton advocacy and wrote a nuanced piece about how we unite behind the nominee.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (none / 0)

Todd stepped outside of direct Clinton advocacy
Clinton hasn't dropped out, so I don't plan to "step outside of direct Cliton advocacy."


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

No problem that you don't step outside of Clinton advocacy, but the leaders of this blog have some catching up to do to catch up to the pack on this nomination battle. We need their voices to provide leadership through the tough battle ahead and that means letting go of the nitty gritty of the battle that has waned.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:27:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (none / 0)

but the leaders of this blog have some catching up to do to catch up to the pack on this nomination battle.
Well that's the choice of "the leaders of this blog" not yours or mine (unless you're a "leader of this blog.") DKos went that way in support of Obama and so I left. Everyone has the opportunity to make choices....so be it.


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:32:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 2)

I think acknowledging that there are two candidates still in this race is actually the reality-based position. I said what I now think will ultimately happen. Until it does, there's still a primary to cover.


by Todd Beeton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:54:00 PM EST

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

So cover it realistically.  

This isn't a knock on you or your diary, but seriously Im tired of diaries making exuses as to why Hillary lost and exuses as to why Obama won.

Leave the Fanboyism to Taylor Marsh and hillis44.

Also Todd, you can't claim for a second that this non partisan liberal blog became the official home for the HRC campain?
Seriously, I saw people who were not trolling get banned and restricted for no reason.

Please keep this site pure,  I like it too much.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:58:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (2.00 / 1)

Todd-thanks for responding. Of course you are right that if there are two candidates saying they are still in it then you need to cover both candidates. but as you said, you have now stated what you think is going to happen, and did so in not wishy-washy terms. Therefore I think that you are best served trying to write diaries that lead to constructive dialogue between the two camps. I just feel that some of what has been written here in the last 24 hours has kind of slipped back into the pre-Tues mindset.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Front Page Realism (Update with link) (none / 0)

"Split Decision" is the kind of front page post that I think is less than helpful at this point.


by wasder on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:20:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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