Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain?

A few Clinton supporters are saying they'll head over to John McCain. As a die-hard Obama fan (who happened, by the way, to get my free sticker today ! Its blue and its going to look good on my new blue hybrid)  I am not suprised.

The Clinton support infrastructure had ties to republican support - you can find out easily enough, by looking at campaign records. There were several openly republican clinton supporters who were backing her in an open primary, to make sure McCain didn't have to face Obama in a general election. And Bill Clinton campaigned amongst republicans, as well.

In the south, they were praying for Hillary. She sparks outrage amongst the conservative base. She would have galvanized their support for whomever the GOP wished to run. The GOP talk show circuit loved to demonize Hillary whenever they could.

However, apart from the obvious shills, I believe there are still people who will state that they will back John McCain , since they didn't get Hillary.  But the question is. How many, really?

I saw a recent poll that showed the Democratic party unity is at an all time record level, with over 81% of self identified democrats pledging their support for Obama? Are the Clinton Democrats, the ones in that 19% that are going to defect?
Are you a clinton supporter? Will you head over to John McCain?



Display:


Clinton supporters will back the D nominee. (2.00 / 2)

Clinton "supporters" will back the GOP nominee.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:23:55 PM EST

I really don't think (2.00 / 4)

many Clinton supporters will vote for McCain. Even the ones who are currently saying they will still have several months to get over it.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:25:59 PM EST

There's a lot of misinformation on this topic (2.00 / 2)

Bottom line is neither party's candidate will obtain 100% of their party's supporters. This is just historical fact.

Right now--and based upon numerous references posted here and elsewhere over the past few days--Obama's doing pretty well in this regard (maintaining his base within the party) in comparison to nos. around this time in the cycle for both Gore and Kerry, for instance. (Yes, I realize they both lost, but they're the most recent examples, nonetheless.)

There have been posts for "Democrats for McCain" and the like, with claims of signing upwards of 15,000 names; but, really, even this is an inconsequential number in the overall scheme of things.

I believe the most PROACTIVE thing we can do, as a community, is to call out all Hillary-hate posts, due to the fact that they do nothing but disaffect potential Obama supporters that are, at the moment, undecided.

For the life of me, how places like DKos (etc.) continue with their Hillary-hate posts is beyond the pale.

I've been doing some research on this, and there are 148 days until the GE. There are 18,000,000 folks in the party that voted for Clinton. Divide 18,000,000 by 148 and that's 121,622 voters on average PER DAY making up their minds about whether or not they're going to support Obama in the GE. Do all those people posting Hillary-hate memes right now understand this? I read where some "need time to get beyond their hate for a few days or a few weeks." In the meantime, they post and continue to disaffect the very folks whom they're supposedly trying to influence.

Will these Hillary-haters ever get a clue? Will they wise up before it's too late? I hope so. Too much is at stake.


by bobswern on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly, there are always defections. (none / 0)

The MSM is making it out to be a much bigger deal than it really is, and Obama's numbers will get better over time, especially when Hillary starts campaigning for him. I have trouble understanding why Clinton supporters are saying they'll vote for McCain after Hillary specifically asked them to back Obama. Watching her give that speech Saturday, I realized that even if I were still angry at Obama, I would still do whatever Hillary asked of me. I trust her judgment.

Yes, the Hillary hate does need to end. A lot of people on dKos realize that, and I frequently see them calling out their fellow Obama supporters when they go too far. But there are some people who just can't control themselves. It's disgusting, really. Some of them are trying to make Hillary's decision to "suspend" her campaign into something malevolent. Idiots. It's a money thing. You can't reason with those people, though. Whatever. I hope they enjoy their pathetic paranoia.

What a lot of Hillary-haters don't understand is, they're really damaging everyone else's attempts to unify the party. They love to say things like, "Why do you care what I say? If you're basing your vote on what some anonymous person said online, then no one can help you." Well, yes and no. It is silly to base your decision on Obama's supporters. However, for the Clinton supporters who are conflicted over whether to support Obama for other reasons, Hillary-haters are making it more difficult to move on. It makes Clinton supporters defensive. It keeps us in the "primary wars" mindset. The people who can't stop bashing her need to shut up and realize how counterproductive their behavior is.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:37:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It reminds me of when Edwards dropped (none / 0)

I seem to recall that when John Edwards dropped out, everyone was extra nice to him and his supporters.  Both Clinton and Obama wanted his people on their side, of course.

Now McCain wants to make a play for disaffected Clinton supporters; it's not like Dean in 2004, because there's no chance a Dean supporter would consider Bush over Kerry.

In the end, I think that cooler heads will prevail, and Obama's consitency and genuine good will should win back most of Clinton's people.  Clinton is going to have to help, though, because she really did string her team along into expecting a win beyond mathmatical probability.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:32:18 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (2.00 / 5)

The Clinton support infrastructure had ties to republican support - you can find out easily enough, by looking at campaign records. There were several openly republican clinton supporters who were backing her in an open primary, to make sure McCain didn't have to face Obama in a general election. And Bill Clinton campaigned amongst republicans, as well.

that is a damning statement indeed.  I would think that there were republicans who backed the Clintons because they preferred them over Obama OR McCain.

and Obama had that nasty piece of work that called BC's comments McCarthism - and that piece of work was a republican.

Or is it only Obama who gets republicans because they believe in him?  

give me an f'ing break.  Your diary is a piece of crap.  More registered, self-identified DEMOCRATS voted for Hillary.  


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:33:35 PM EST

i really love 'clinton math'... (2.00 / 1)

first of all, you understand that registered democrats and self-identified democrats are two different things, right?

and a huge part of clinton's claim to have won more votes from "registered democrats" is because obama did well in states where party registration doesn't happen (such as illinois).  but, yeah, hillary did better in states like new york, where party registration is required.  whoda thunk it?


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i really love 'clinton math'... (2.00 / 1)

it isn't the "new Clinton math".

take it up with the exit polls.


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:46:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so you're making a different claim than the... (none / 0)

clinton campaign (which claimed more votes from registered democrats than barack)?  could you provide a link to a website where this is counted?  i've never seen anyone make this specific claim before (and i know the clinton campaign has not made this specific claim before)...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:54:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: so you're making a different claim than the... (none / 0)

if you go to CNN exit polls from the primary, you can count each state yourself.

Also, this has been out there for a while now.  


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:58:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol... (none / 0)

so you made it up!

i knew that it was "clinton math!"  obviously, i have no confidence in your figures since not only is it an estimation, but one that excludes almost 20% of voters in some states, and punishes the more organized campaign (aka, the obama campaign).  but thanks for explaining your methodology.  it's always interesting to see how people twist around statistics for their own purposes...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 04:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol... (none / 0)

huh?  I didn't make anything up.  I read about it, heard about it and even spent an hour with a spreadsheet tallying it from CNN's exit polls.

maybe you should do the same before calling someone a liar.

My methodology was using the exit polls, just like you use.  There is nothing to "twist" except in your mind.


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol... (none / 0)

that's fine.  i thought clintonistas believed that "every vote should count."  i express no surprise that only some votes count (democrats who vote on election day, but not by absentee or early vote, etc).  next you'll tell me only hillary's votes really counted...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol... (none / 0)

you aren't making any sense now, as I made no such claim

whatever.


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:35:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol... (none / 0)

is it that you don't understand exit polling?  where is the confusion?


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:09:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

While I will readily admit... (none / 0)

...that Clinton certainly got a good number of Republican converts that were honest and would vote for her over McCain, it is also demonstrable that a considerable number of them were only for her because of political expediency.  In Indiana, something like 3%-4% of her voters admitted that they wouldn't vote for her over McCain.

Obama certainly got a few of that type as well early on... folks that wanted to get rid of Clinton before she was a threat to win the White House, but there wasn't much of an organized movement: it's not like Clinton, where Scaife, Coulter, Limbaugh, Rove, and other VRWC people came out for her because they'd been doing their research to run against Hillary Clinton for seven years that they didn't want to have wasted.

As for the "McCarthyism" swipe... well, if Bill didn't want to get called on it, he shouldn't have excluded Obama from the set of people who were patriotic Americans and loved their country.  It was silly of him to do; if it wasn't intentional, then he really needed to review that speech beforehand and ammend it.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:50:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Propaganda (2.00 / 6)

I think that many Clinton supporters may sit the election out as far as the Presidential race, but I doubt if ANY will vote for John McCain.

I can't help but wonder if the people who are trying to tar us with this brush are part of an organized disinformation campaign.

It IS patriotic to want the best possible candidate for your country.

It is NOT patriotic to want ill for your country out of spite.

Best to do what you can to get an acceptable situation you can vote FOR.

If you want, you can also write-in candidates.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:33:53 PM EST

Re: Propaganda (2.00 / 4)

I agree.  I won't be sitting out this election and I will vote for Obama, but I am not jumping up & down in my chair.  I am dissatisfied but not enough to have McCain in the WH.

this type of shit that the diarist writes makes me even more dissatisfied and unmotivated.


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:35:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes.. (2.00 / 1)

I am hoping similarly.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Comprehensively cover 100%, not only the healthiest 80%
by architek on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:36:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Propaganda (2.00 / 3)

I'm one of those people who plans not to vote. IMO, there isn't a good candidate to vote for.

In reference to Democrats that will vote for McCain; I think there will be a few that will vote for McCain out of spite, but I think there will be many who vote for McCain because they can't relate to Obama. Truth is...Trinity church really did hurt Obama.

Now, many here will say that people should vote on the issues. If Democrats vote McCain, they're voting against what Democrats believe in. FYI; most Americans don't follow politics that closey. Many Democrats are Democrats because their parents were.


by soyousay on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:03:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you wonder why (none / 0)

this country is so fucked up?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

let's not go there..... (none / 0)

...kay? :D

I'm sure the "fucked" is a matter of opinion.


by soyousay on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:41:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: let's not go there..... (none / 0)

Yeah, pretty much. Only someone who thinks the country is doing dandy right now would consider voting for McCain. Why rock the boat, right?


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Whatever floats your boat (none / 0)

Who said that the country is doing "dandy?"

Who's voting for McCain?


by soyousay on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:50:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The number of Clinton supporters (2.00 / 2)

who vote for McCain will be negligible, imo. I just don't see it happening.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:35:29 PM EST

Re: The number of Clinton supporters (2.00 / 1)

Do you know how many ill-informed Americans there are out there?


by soyousay on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so Obama can't win (none / 0)

because Americans are too stupid?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ignorance is bliss (2.00 / 1)

Americans have busy lives. Many are worried about paying bills, providing for their kids and working long hours. Not everyone has time to follow politics. I would say many Americans are ignorant in reference to politics; it's not a front-burner issue for them. The front-burner issue for them is getting by on a day to day basis. Are they stupid? IMO, for the most part... NO.


by soyousay on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ignorance is bliss (none / 0)

"The front-burner issue for them is getting by on a day to day basis."

which is why they will decide their vote because of Obama's former pastor?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:18:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (1.25 / 4)

Since Hillary has expressly requested that her supporters vote DO NOT write in her name and DO NOT vote for McCain, but rather DO vote for Barack Obama, those who do not never really supported her at all.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:37:24 PM EST

Re: Clinton (1.00 / 2)

Nowhere is it written that we must OBEY our candidates.

Her endorsement does not convince me to vote for Obama. He is not qualified to be President.  Her endorsement is only what is "expected" of her.

As a voter, I don't have to meet any such "expectations"

Four years ago, he wasn't even in the U.S. Senate.  Now, he thinks he should be President.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:47:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Along with 18 million primary voters (none / 0)

meh.


by Poor Yorick on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:02:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

WTF???? (2.00 / 1)

There are die-hard Obama fans on this site that were once bush supporters.


by soyousay on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:38:01 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

In every election each party has ~15% of its voters cross over. We are less then a week after the last highly charged candidates dropped out and we have hit 19% as a ceiling?  Yeah, no worries. The Republicans have had months to coalesce around their nominee and pull in 83%


by notedgeways on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:40:46 PM EST

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 1)

"In the south, they were praying for Hillary. She sparks outrage amongst the conservative base".

I am sure Obama is going to play very well in the South (sort of like the Sheriff in "Blazing Saddles")

The 527s haven't gone to work on Obama yet. Just wait. Why would they waste their money five months out?

Red states will stay red.  Blue states will stay blue.

4-5 states actually in play. Will the "new" Electoral Map prevail?
I don't think so. But I could be wrong.

I have always respected McCain, mostly for his military service, which almost everybody lacks these days.  It shows real courage. Real guts.

He is the only Republican who can get Independent votes in November. And maybe Independent-leaning Democrats who really REALLY preferred Hillary (or Dodd, or Biden, but are having a hard time with Obama).

So do I vote for the guy I respect but don't agree (mostly) with? Or the guy I (mostly) agree with but don't respect? Hard to say what people are going to do.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:41:55 PM EST

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 2)

I WILL be voting for Democrats in the down-ticket races.

Just might leave the Presidential box blank.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:43:21 PM EST

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Cool. You don't support Hillary or the Democratic Party.

So why are you on this site?


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 1)

To sow dissent. Why else?


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (none / 0)

why do you say that?

I gave over $200 to Hillary.

$0 to Obama


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Suuuuuuuuure you did. You support Hillary, but you just refuse to respect her wishes. Gotcha.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:53:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (none / 0)

So I should be a good lap-dog and agree with everything my candidate says?

No thanks.

You Obama supporters have a monopoly on that.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 1)

Whatever, dude. I support the Democratic Party. In this election, I don't have time to waste with people who don't.

Phony.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:01:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton Supporters Won't Sit on Their Hands (2.00 / 2)

In fact the Clinton faction has deeper roots in the Party than many of the newbies supporting Obama. That is not a criticism but a fact. These people are so committed to this Party that I suspect that it will be very slim pickings for McCain, the phony maverick.


by hypopg on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:45:03 PM EST

Not sure. I'll give McCain a chance (1.83 / 6)

as he's a moderate, believes in public service, and shares some of my values.   Green party is running an African-American woman (Cynthia McKinney) and I will be looking closely at her as well.   One thing for sure is that I wouldn't vote for Obama if he were the last Democrat on earth.  

If any pro-Obama fearmongers want to challenge me on Iraq or Roe v. Wade, read this:   1) Irag is getting better, just as anyone with any knowledge of electoral history KNEW it would do during the summer months preceding a Presidential election (Bush has the power to make it better and making it better helps the Rep candidate);  2) More kids die in inner-city violence right here at home, every YEAR, than have died in 5 years of Iraq.  What's the Obamessiah planning to do about that?  Chicago had one of the highest crime rates in the nation throughout Obama's wonderful terms in State and U.S. Senate.

On Roe v. Wade:  1) O'Connor, a Reagan appointee was a staunch defender of Roe:  2) Roe is established law and unlikely to be overturned; 3) RU232 and other morning after drugs are making abortion increasingly unnecessary.

Obamabots and in-the-tank admins of this site, please refrain from flaming me and yanking my comment offline (as you did a few minutes ago with my perfectly-reasonable post about Alice Palmer and Obama's violation of the voting rights act).   I know it is exceeding difficult for you folks to hear the truth, but in this case my comment is given in answer to a question posed by the actual diary.


by miker2008 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:47:20 PM EST

Re: Not sure. I'll give McCain a chance (2.00 / 1)

Again, if McCain is your choice and his Republican values are your values, why hang out here?

Also, "Bush has the power to make Iraq better" made my week. Thanks.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:49:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

Why hang out here? because Redstate sucks.

There is a political SPECTRUM.  We are not all blue or all red. many of Hillary's supporters are more conservative (maybe older) Democrats.  Maybe Independent-leaning Democrats.  maybe we live in states like Michigan, or Indiana, or Ohio.

So we don't like Redstate, and the orange DailyObama site makes us want to puke.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (2.00 / 1)

Again, if you don't support Hillary's wishes (vote for Obama), you don't support her.

Hillary's a completely different type of Democrat than Obama as well. But she realizes what's at stake and has done what's best for the country.

But since you are a fake supporter, you were never going to follow anyway.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

Try lurking at NoQuarter.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:25:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

it is funny.  3-4 months ago, over at the Orange web site...I was told by an Obama supporter to "go over to Mydd"

My first thought was, "what is Mydd", and then I came here. And haven't logged onto the Orange site since.

Now, I am being told to go somewhere else.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:11:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Since you've decided to leave (none / 0)

the Democratic Party, then maybe you should leave Democratic blogs.

It's ok to become a Republican, just not here


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

What I am going to say I say with a lot of respect becaus you're not a troll and whatnot.

Daily Kos and MyDD are blogs whose goal is to spread progressive values and viewpoints and elect Democrats.

This isn't a blog for open political talk. Many of these types of blogs and message boards exist where far left liberals can fight all day long with less left liberals, conservatives, moderates,etc.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to vote for Obama. That's your constitutional right. But realize that the goal of this site and the majority of the users is to elect him.

Perhaps it's just not the right community for you.


by PSUdan on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:58:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

Yeah, that's "the new progressivism" led by former republicans (Markos of dailykos, Huffington of huffingtonpost) who practice all the dirty tricks and censorship that they learned through their previous affiliation.  

You have to understand, the new progressive is not particularly tolerant of dissenting opinion.  He is a somewhat tender fellow, suffering from unclear thoughts, weak logic, and rampant emotions.  He is easily threatened by words that cause him to doubt his convictions and thus he must suppress such words by any means necessary.  


by miker2008 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 04:15:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No we're not (none / 0)

we don't come here to fight with Republicans. I can do that at my dinner table.

This is not the place for you. It has nothing to do with censorship, it has to do with the point of this blog.

You would not go to a vegetarian blog and advocate steak for dinner.

You're here for only one reason and that is to piss us off and create more division.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:17:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No we're not (none / 0)

You use "Republican" as though it were relevant to this discussion and somehow explained your inability to handle dissenting views.   If I tell you I am a Democrat who has voted straight ticket since 1972 and my parents were FDR democrats, you will no doubt find some other reason to believe that what I say has nothing to do with the Democratic party or your candidate's chances in November.   And yet, what I say has EVERYTHING to do with them because I'm not a lone oddball but one of thousands, if not millions, of people who feel the same way.   You don't even pause to wonder how a died-in-the-wool Democrat like myself might be so disgusted with Obama.  I find that extraordinary.


by miker2008 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:06:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No we're not (none / 0)

"If I tell you I am a Democrat who has voted straight ticket since 1972 and my parents were FDR democrats"

I guarantee so has Joe Lieberman, doesn't make him a Democrat. As you mentioned above, you believe Iraq is going great and that abortion doesn't need to be defended and somehow because Obama is from a city, he can't govern the country because said city has a high crime rate (of course you neglicted to mention that Chicago's crime rate is substainially lower than it was when Obama was elected to the State Senate over a decade ago).

You are either delusional or a Republican in denial.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:24:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No we're not (none / 0)

"As you mentioned above, you believe Iraq is going great and that abortion doesn't need to be defended and somehow because Obama is from a city, he can't govern the country because said city has a high crime rate (of course you neglicted to mention that Chicago's crime rate is substainially lower than it was when Obama was elected to the State Senate over a decade ago)."

I did not say Iraq is going great, I said Bush has the power to make it better, and he is doing that now so that his party will get elected.   I've known all along that we'll be seeing ticker tape parades of returning veterans in October.   Iraq is a silly thing for Obama to hang his hat on and to use as a fear lever.  Abortion needs to be defended, but not necessarily by Obama.  Chicago crime is relevant because Obama supporters wax so hysterical over caskets and dead sons coming home from Iraq (every one of them HILLARY'S FAULT), but conveniently ignore caskets and dead sons in the inner city which are not Hillary's fault (although, given their remarkable views of causality when it comes to Hillary, maybe they do see it as her fault).


by miker2008 on Tue Jun 10, 2008 at 02:08:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and for the record (none / 0)

my great uncle has voted Republican since Dewey and is casting his vote this year for Obama at the tender age of 79

in fact, after looking at what the GOP stands for, he reregistered as a Democrat.

"I guess I wasn't a Republican after all" was what he told me.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 08:26:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

I wasn't making a rude suggestion as in if you don't like it here go to NoQuarter. I was suggesting a site you may be interested in based on your comments. I lurk in a lot of places.  


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 06:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. I'll give McCain a chance (2.00 / 2)

Good question, and here is my answer:

I've been voting straight-ticket Democrat since 1972, long before many Obama supporters took their first breath.   And before me, my father and mother were straight-ticket Democrats.   I belong to a party with an honorable history of supporting all the people who struggle for a better life, not just some.   A party that gave us intelligent and courageous leaders like FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter & Clinton.   It is "my" party (you know, as in 'mydd'?).  

This year my party got hijacked by special interests and has moved into a truly strange and creepy zone of suppressing free speech (witness this site) and denigrating huge swaths of the party membership (women & moderates).   Even the most loyal person cannot yield to every misstep, and sometimes loyalty means speaking up against injustice.    


by miker2008 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:07:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. I'll give McCain a chance (2.00 / 2)

Cool. I'd keep a list of fake Hillary supporters and fake Democrats, but what's the point?

Enjoy being proven wrong for the next four years.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:17:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. (none / 0)

Jimmy Carter in 1980 was my first election.

The Obama supporters think they can get enough college kids to offset the older Democratic vote.  

It may work as far as the Popular Vote...but they never did seem to understand the Electoral College map.  (They don't teach geography in school any more).


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Us idiot college kids (none / 0)

why do they let us idiots vote?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:33:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

To the admins, here's another McCain troll. (none / 0)


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:51:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not sure. I'll give McCain a chance (2.00 / 1)

O'Connor, a Reagan appointee was a staunch defender of Roe

Hah.  And they're just thrilled about that, aren't they?  Just look at Alito and Roberts, pretty much carbon copies of O'Connor, Souter, and Kennedy.


by randomscientist on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So pretty much (none / 0)

you're a Republican


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:21:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

This doesn't look helpful.


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:48:13 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

I predict that there will be a lower than normal number of crossovers when the votes are counted. This isn't any old year, this is an election coming on the heels of 8 years of Bush.


by wasder on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:48:43 PM EST

Re: WTF Diairist (2.00 / 1)

This is the type of diary that DOES NOT help anyone.

Obama's goal is to unite the party. 90% of Obama's supporters goal is to unite the party.

Then, you have the 10% of Obama supporters like this diarist who are going the OPPOSITE direction.

They are a Liability to Obama.

WTF do you expect. After a hardfought year long race, 100% of Clinton supporters would sing & dance for Obama in a matter of 1 week.

And you insult any democrat who have ever voted for a Republican.

Why don't you insult the Republicans voters who plan to vote for Obama in November ??

What a STUPID Diary.


by libdemusa on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:52:45 PM EST

Re: WTF Diairist (2.00 / 2)

Unity does not mean obedience extorted by being bopped over the head by a bully.  Nor does it mean sheep-like adherence based on ignorance (ignorance following directly from having the truth denied you by censorship of free speech).  

Unity comes when people in a position of leadership create unity, by appealing to truth and shared values and ... showing leadership!   Power has to be judged legitimate, if people are to unite and follow.    So far in the area of leadership, I've seen nothing, zip, nada, zero from the DNC or by the SEElected (not EElected) candidate.    


by miker2008 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WTF Diairist (none / 0)

"Unity comes when people in a position of leadership create unity, by appealing to truth and shared values and ... showing leadership!   Power has to be judged legitimate, if people are to unite and follow.    So far in the area of leadership, I've seen nothing, zip, nada, zero from the DNC or by the SEElected (not EElected) candidate."

Nothing of which I saw in Hillary Clinton either

Sorry.    


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

I can remember when everyone was saying we have two great candidates and either one would be better than McBush.  What happened to all that happiness with our candidates?  I was a JRE supporter, but I got over it when he lost, and I was mad and saying all kinds of crazy stuff, like voting for Nader.  Well it didn't last because in the end I am a yellow dog democrat.  Anyone who is a real democrat would never vote for McBush, McSame, or McLame.


by Spanky on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:53:21 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

I've asked that question numerous times, and don't know if I'll ever get a definitive answer. But since the nomination race has ended, now is pretty much NOT the time to dig deep and find out what separates Hillary's supporters from the supporters of every other candidate.

They should have time to lick the wounds, shake it off, and get on the train to derail McBush with the rest of us.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:55:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

You have to wonder what the motivation is of the bozo who wrote this diary. Is he a paranioic Obama supporter who thinks the world his plotting to "get" his man or is it simply a Republican troll trying to stir up trouble. In either case it's totally asinine.


by ottovbvs on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:54:56 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

I'm a Hillary supporter and will vote McCain if she isn't on the ticket.  Hillary 2012!!!!!


by karajan72 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:58:13 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

Translation: Fake Hillary supporter


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:00:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought you said (none / 0)

you weren't going to vote.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:27:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This really is not an issue. (2.00 / 1)

In every election, a small minority of voters from one party cross over to vote for the other.  Republicans voted for Kerry in 2004; Democrats voted for Bush.

This always happen.

The idea that a majority, or even a significant minority, of Clinton's strongest supporters would rather see McCain in the White House than Obama is absolutely absurd.  Those supporters are solid Democrats, with solid Democratic values.  They know McCain does not share the values.

Even if they are not attracted to Obama's personality, even if they have concerns about his electability, even if they take issue with his policies -- they still know that Obama is much closer to them than McCain.

A handful of narcissistic whiners does not a movement make.  

I've been as staunch a Clinton supporter as anyone else, but I am truly embarrassed by any self-identified Clinton "supporter" who would even consider voting for McCain, much less announcing it on a website or on TV.


by Angry Mouse on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:01:47 PM EST

Re: This really is not an issue. (none / 0)

What's with the over-the-top partisanship here?   Truly, on what can anyone base blind adherence to someone whose positions aren't even known?   He's got a paper thin track record.   He's equivocated on the big issues (NAFTA, Iraq).   He gutted his own anti-nuclear bill in IL to suit a campaign contributor (Exelon).   He's hit the wrong button in the state senate (voted 'yes' when he meant to vote 'no', this by his own account).  He doesn't know how many states are in the U.S.  He's done very little to help his African-American constituents in Chicago.   He's changed his position on Rev. Wright several times.   He's going to "try" to reduce greenhouse gases by 80% by 2050, but has no clear plan for doing so.   He's not sure about drivers licenses for illegals.  I mean, on what policy (name one, any one) are you absolutely sure he'll be on your side come 2009?  


by miker2008 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This really is not an issue. (none / 0)

And yet, Hillary supports him 100 percent and you do not support Hillary or the Democrats.

It's not blind partisanship. Your list is a joke. Wow, Obama got the number of states wrong? Well, McCain got the religious factions of Iraq and the true leadership of Iran wrong! Which one actually makes any sort of difference in the real world?

He changed his position on Rev. Wright? Good thing that matters to anybody but Rev. Wright! Meanwhile, McCain has changed positions on almost every major policy decision except for Iraq.


by Reeves on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:30:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This really is not an issue. (2.00 / 1)

The Supreme Court.

I have total faith that Obama will appoint judges to the Court who are vastly superior to any judges McCain will appoint.

Additionally, while I will not dispute the points you raise about Obama, I maintain that McCain is worse on all of those issues (and others).

Elections are often about voting for the lesser of two evils.  Even if you cannot find anything about Obama to admire, certainly you can admit that McCain is worse.  


by Angry Mouse on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:37:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (2.00 / 2)

It seems this site will soon become just the the Orange site most of us left months ago.

"The Daily Obama" or something like that.  

Probably most of the Hillary supporters will leave the site and leave you guys to echo each other.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:03:56 PM EST

Re: Clinton (none / 0)

You're more than welcome to talk about her policies, and what she stands for, but what should be universally understood is that this site is for the betterment and election of Democrats and Progressives. And it just so happens that a prominent Democrat and Progressive is the Democratic nominee.

So yes, I guess we will echo each other, in the sense of Democrats on a Democratic site supporting the Democratic nominee for president.


Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.
by Massadonious on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:56:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Probably (none / 0)

it'll just be you.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:30:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters to head over to McCain? (none / 0)

There will be plenty of hissy-fit temper tantrum dead enders that won't vote for Obama, despite Clinton's own enthusiastic support for her party's nominee.  Whatever, Obama was tied with McCain while Hillary was in the last delusional throes of her campaign and the alegres of the world were in full meldown.  If even half of the Clinton supporters that were saying at the time that they wouldn't vote for Obama (the reasonable half who were just caught up in the emotions of the primary but who actually LISTEN to Hillary...) come back into the tent, a tie turns into a 5-10 point blow out.

Let the children have their temper tantrum.  It's not going to make any difference.


NJ Hussein Independent
by NJIndependent on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:06:24 PM EST

Not helping (2.00 / 1)

Writing a diary trashing Clinton supporters at this point is not helping.

I've had heated differences with them in the past, but there's a big difference between Hillary supporters at places like MyDD and those at places like No Quarter.


"I will veto every single beer!" -- John McCain
by fwiffo3 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:24:57 PM EST

Obama supporters (2.00 / 4)

i was at hillary's last primary night speech in new york. unfortunately, i was in an overflow room since  (even after 2 hours in line) the main hall was already filled up. hillary and chelsea were kind enough to meet and greet people in the overflow room after her speech. while shaking hands and signing autographs, a band of obama supporters decided to  start chanting obama's name and slogans. it was ugly. petty. tasteless. hillary and chelsea soldiered on and the room tried to drown out their chants with hillary chants.

now, it would be unfair to link obama to these clowns. however, i get the sense that a a large portion of his 'new voters' that he likes to brag about are these type of idiots. and they helped to decide the nominee, especially through the caucuses.

and party unity is left to folks like me? i'm sorry, but whatever i decide to do on election day- i will not be guilted into voting for obama. frankly, i'd much rather write her name in or stay home to protest the biased media coverage and these goons.


by darwinism on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:28:39 PM EST

Re: McCain (2.00 / 2)

McCain is not too bad. He is a moderate to liberal republican. He has been around for a long time and most of us high information types know him pretty well. We are not going to be scare-mongered into believing he is just a clone of Bush. That is just not true and anyone who says so is an idiot.

With Obama, at first the only things I knew of him what what he wanted us to know from his speaches and from his books. I loved the guy.

Then I found out the part of his background he kept silent about: Rezko, Wright, Ayers. Then I watched him smear the Clintons as racists. Then I saw him embrace Republican talking points.

I will not be voting for Obama. I am old enough to know a con man when I see a con man. Thank god the campaign was long enough that I learned who Obama is before I cast a ballot for him.


by Caliman on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 04:03:02 PM EST

Moderate to liberal Republican? (none / 0)

Boy are you misinformed.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:19:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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